If pause is really stop, why call it pause?

[Kizzume]

I initially tried using qBittorrent because Ninite had it as an option.  I trust Ninite, they really haven't done me wrong.

But, in general, in just about anything in life, if something is paused, it means it's ready to be started again, an INSTANT start, like it's in the queue ready to be changed at any time.  Think of a cassette deck when you pause the tape:  You only have to hit pause again to start it playing again and the heads are already there and there's no delay or anything.  That's what pause means normally.

I don't trust a "pause" option for a torrent I really am truly done with downloading.  I want to truly stop it, like hitting stop on a cassette deck.  Yes, I seed during the time I download, but when I'm done, I stop it immediately.

If this "pause" option actually DOES stop it, and doesn't keep it in some queue ready to instantly seed again at any time (like it was never really "stopped" in the first place), it should be labeled "stopped".  When I put a car with an automatic transmission in park, I don't put it in neutral with a brake, I put it in park.  If car manufacturers got rid of the "park" option in automatic transmissions, people wouldn't trust it, even if the methods they replace it with work supposedly as well.  There's no need to re-label a standard option as something else unless it actually functions differently than stop.

If you've purposely made it so there's no *real* stop option, then it seems you've made this *not* for the consumer, but to cram "You need to seed!!! Seed!!" down everyone's throats, in which I'll be extremely disappointed.

Normally when I'm using your competition, when something is done downloading, I hit stop and keep it in the list so I know what I've for sure downloaded.  I know there are a number of options for where to save things, but that really doesn't solve the issue.  I just want a real stop option.  Again, if pause really truly is "stop" and not something just similar to stop, I'm really not understanding why you didn't just call it "stop".  If that's the case, a long drawn out explanation would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Nemo]

Hi and welcome to our forum ,

Your explanation makes sense and I do understand it completely. This has been asked few times in the past too and even though it can be confusing for some new users using qBittorrent it really isn't (especially users coming from uTorrent). To make things clear; The Pause button is actually a stop button. It does the same thing; stopping the torrent completely. As you may have noticed there isn't any other option between it; only Resume and Pause, nothing like a standby mode or something. If im right Transmission also has it called Pause .

I don't have a long explanation for this but maybe our developer might hop in if he has something to add to this or someone else.

[sledgehammer_999]

I don't understand why you are desperate to differentiate about this function.

In qbt the pause button stops all activity on the torrent, it doesn't scrape and it doesn't announce in the dht/trackers/lsd and doesn't keep any connections open. However, it checks if the files actually exist on the disk. This is evident when you start qbt and you have manually deleted the files on disk. That torrent's fastresume will fail and you will see it at 0% needing a recheck to continue.

I don't know what else you want.

[ciaobaby]

Your "automatic transmission" analogue  is flawed, the 'park' the only applies a light duty 'brake' or a 'pawl' in the epicyclic gear train (and put the torque converter into 'bypass') which will only hold the vehicle on a non-inclined plane. 'Park' is NOT intended to prevent the vehicle moving when left unattended so anyone relying on 'park' rather than applying the vehicle handbrake is incorrect and possibly flouting the law.

> Yes, I seed during the time I download, but when I'm done, I stop it immediately.

So 100% "leech" then. (no judgement of course as it is your choice).

It is only uTorrent and bitTorrent, as far as I am aware that have different definitions for  'stop' and 'pause'. Every other BT client I have used have 'Pause' meaning "Deactivate but keep in task list" whereas uT/BT, 'Pause' means "Deactivate transfers but maintain peer connections"

[Kizzume]

Sledgehammer_999:  I want "stop" to be labeled "stop", not something that makes people think of something completely differently.  It doesn't matter what it actually does, it matters what the first impression of the labeled option is.  Calling it "pause" is silly and goes against standards.

I see this:  "Well we always call it an involuntary protein spill when our kids get sick." well that's nice dear.  Everyone else calls it "throwing up".


Ciaobaby:  "It is only uTorrent and bitTorrent" um.... so how many bittorrent clients do you think people try to use?  Do you think people go shopping for 15 of them or something?  Those are the primary competition, so for qBittorrent to do things very differently from your primary competition means YOU are the ones that are pulling away from the standard.

In a typical program, maybe we should use the term "volume" to mean how much space you want a file to take instead of how audibly loud something is.  After all, technically it would be right.  Who cares what people usually think of the word, right?  I mean, after all, if one follows standards, it negates the ability to make something completely different, right?  You can't possibly have something better if you're copying everyone else, right? :rolleyes:

And yes, when I'm downloading illegal software, I'm a leech.  I don't feel like paying for a proxy server to be safer, so I immediately hit stop once the file is done downloading.  If I was a total leech I wouldn't allow ANY uploading at all.  Personally I don't think politics should enter the user interface for a bittorrent client, it should be made easy to use no matter how one wants to use it, it shouldn't have an anti-leeching attitude built right into the interface. But that's my view.

[ciaobaby]

>  so for qBittorrent to do things very differently from your primary competition means YOU are the ones that are pulling away from the standard.

Nope! Wrong way around. If we take the "standard" to be "The method in most common use", it is BitTorrent and uTorrent that 'buck the trend'

> "It is only uTorrent and bitTorrent" um.... so how many bittorrent clients do you think people try to use?  Do you think people go shopping for 15 of them or something? 

Far from it, I'm simply pointing out that you are considering the client(s) that actually go away from the accepted norm are the "standard"

What you are missing from your knowledge or experience is that the majority of BitTorrent protocol client use the Open Source libtorrent library (in one form or another) and it is libtorrent that provides the functionality for peer communication. BitTorrent had their own Open Source torrent engine until V6 when they switched to using the closed source uTorrent core, so BitTorrent and it's (un)stablemate of uTorrent that are the outsiders. Their user base is what other clients are after NOT their often arcane functionality. Anyone for a helping of disk overloaded????

No? .... No takers?? I can't imagine why not!

[Kizzume]

Let me first say that, even though I may seem disgruntled, I very much appreciate the responses.  Thank you.

>  so for qBittorrent to do things very differently from your primary competition means YOU are the ones that are pulling away from the standard.

Nope! Wrong way around. If we take the "standard" to be "The method in most common use", it is BitTorrent and uTorrent that 'buck the trend'

Um, BitTorrent and uTorrent ARE THE standards.  If you're going to refer to some versions that nobody uses that might have used a CLI or something way back on Linux, go for it I guess, they're versions that nobody uses, so why mention them?

> "It is only uTorrent and bitTorrent" um.... so how many bittorrent clients do you think people try to use?  Do you think people go shopping for 15 of them or something? 

Far from it, I'm simply pointing out that you are considering the client(s) that actually go away from the accepted norm are the "standard"

uTorrent and BitTorrent ARE the accepted norms.  You're not making any sense?

What are these "standards" that you speak of?  Are we talking "standard" according to a 0.000001% of computer users out there who think a CLI is a good interface for a graphics editor or a DAW (who also think Gimp is just as good as Photoshop), who are used to using a CLI to handle torrent software? I mean, what's the standard you speak of, what's the program (or programs) that everyone knows about that has a good GUI?  If uTorrent and BitTorrent aren't the ones, please tell me all about these other ones that are supposedly the standard that I'm not aware of yet.

What you are missing from your knowledge or experience is that the majority of BitTorrent protocol client use the Open Source libtorrent library (in one form or another) and it is libtorrent that provides the functionality for peer communication.

Yes, I'm missing the stuff I would know about if I could stand using a CLI and thought that typing 20 words is easier than clicking the mouse in a couple places.  I lack that experience because I get frustrated very quickly with a CLI.  I don't know about these underpinnings.  I would refuse to do torrents at all if a CLI was the only interface available to handle them.  I can remember using uTorrent back in 2006 or so.  I think I first used BitTorrent in 2003, but uTorrent had a lot better options and had a better GUI.

BitTorrent had their own Open Source torrent engine until V6 when they switched to using the closed source uTorrent core, so BitTorrent and it's (un)stablemate of uTorrent that are the outsiders. Their user base is what other clients are after NOT their often arcane functionality. Anyone for a helping of disk overloaded????

They want a good GUI.  They suck people in with a good GUI.  The lack of a good GUI philosophy is why Linux will never be popular, the GUI on most programs on Linux is an afterthought, it's thought of as not important, and there are still tons of programs on Linux that still only have a CLI as the only interface--the attitude is "it's free, so don't complain", which guarantees that it will never be popular.  When typing 15 gobblygook words and commands in a single command line is considered just as "valid" as clicking the mouse on a couple things, you know you're dealing with a mindset that will never understand why the majority of people use computers, nor a mindset that CARES about why the majority of people use computers.

No? .... No takers?? I can't imagine why not!

I don't actually know what you're referring to when it comes to "helping of disk overloaded".

[sledgehammer_999]

You problem seems to be why call it "pause" because it actually "stops" the torrent and for that reason we should call it "stop".
Explain to me why the same logic doesn't apply to utorrent which has both a "pause" button and a "stop" button?

[Kizzume]

[quote="sledgehammer_999"]
You problem seems to be why call it "pause" because it actually "stops" the torrent and for that reason we should call it "stop".
Explain to me why the same logic doesn't apply to utorrent which has both a "pause" button and a "stop" button?
[/quote]

Because I assume that pause really means pause, and stop really means stop with those programs.

[sledgehammer_999]

I don't know the specifics but surely the "pause" button in utorrent doesn't mean:

it means it's ready to be started again, an INSTANT start, like it's in the queue ready to be changed at any time

[ciaobaby]

uTorrent 'pause' means stop data transfers but keep peer connections alive.

[Nemo]

This is what uTorrent does with Pause/Stop:

Pause will pause the selected torrent job(s), but won't actually stop it. This tells µTorrent to attempt to retain connections to peers without having to re-establish them like starting stopped torrent jobs would require. It is useful for when you need quick access to bandwidth. Realize that while µTorrent won't drop the connections on its own accord, the connection can still get dropped by the client on the other end of the connection.

Stop will stop the selected torrent job(s). All connections with peers are dropped.

Small note: They removed the Pause button from the toolbar since uTorrent v3.4 cause ''It's a pretty silly feature anyway'' they said. It can still be reached through the context menu.

Final conclusion: Pause with qBittorrent is the same as Stop with uTorrent, but its named different.

[Kizzume]

Thanks for the info.

[ciaobaby]

By the way, If you really prefer it with a "Stop" caption ... download the source code from https://github.com/qbittorrent/qBittorrent change the captions and compile the source.

[hyperion1is]

Hi Kizzume,

I don't want to annoy anyone but I agree with Kizzume. I had the same thing, and still do. The first time using qBt the first thing I have noticed is that I can't find a stop button. If the Pause is Stop it should be named Stop. For a non-geek like me it fells unconformable to hit Pause when I want stop. Is like I'm doing something wrong and counterintuitive.
When I leave home I shutdown my PC (desktop) and I don't pause it (if hibernate would be pause). If I would leave it to (Pause) I would worry not to catch fire or anything like that.
Anyway, for a noob, not necessarily newbie, meaning for a person who likes to use the program more than peak under the hood (even if is not new to torrenting), pausing feels wrong. I don't know how to describe the feeling. And until you go on the forum, until you figure out that pause is stop... well you know.
Also, I imagine that for technical guys must be frustrating to code for noobs. But for who else...?